(C) 2002 Aftermath Records
One might think that this notion of just who is and who isn't a "real American" has been one that's poisoned our politics just since the beginning of the George W. Bush era. But I'd argue that that meme is just the latest flare-up of the global social pandemic of bigotry. People are ruled out for their sexual orientation, their gender, their city in which they reside -- oh, hi, San Francisco; my fellow New Yorkers; pretty much any other place that votes blue -- and also, of course, for their race. What, and who, are we then left with?
"Real Americans" equals straight white people, mostly those middle-class to lower middle-class folks who have certain values (likely Christian in nature). That characterization is one that Eminem exploits in the video above, holding up a mirror to those who might favor him for his own whiteness. And whoever they are, they certainly aren't voting Democratic -- and especially not for President Obama. We make this assumption based upon the conventional wisdom, the conventional wisdom which Melissa will disregard when she breaks down some stats today about white voters in 2012, and explore what they really want in a presidential candidate.
Other topics we'll cover: why Mitt Romney's business experience has really nothing to do whether or not he'd be a good President; the new coalition between the LGBT community and the NAACP. We'll also take a look at Eminem's home state, as we examine all of the Republican hijinks in Michigan politics this week.
(Speaking of that State Up North, you may have heard something about Michigan State Representative Lisa Brown daring to use the word "vagina" (gasp!) in the debate over an anti-abortion bill; we'll welcome State Rep. Brown to the show today.)
Melissa will also be joined by the following guests:
- Chloe Angyal, an editor with Feministing.com.
- Keith Boykin, CNBC contributor, BET columnist, and a former Clinton White House aide.
- Peter Goodman, executive business editor at the Huffington Post, and author of "Past Due: The End of Easy Money and the Renewal of the American Economy."
- Ben Jealous, president and CEO of the NAACP.
- Michael Tomasky, special correspondent with Newsweek and the Daily Beast.
We hope that you interact with us during the show here in the comments of this post, on Facebook, and on Twitter, using the hashtag #nerdland -- and encourage others to do the same. We look forward to having you join us at 10am ET on msnbc!
Leave a Comment:
Profits generate jobs and growth!!!!!
This panel today has no eeeeefffffing clue how the real world works!!!!!
With out private equity there would be no MHP show as there would be no MSNBC...
There would be no Iphone no apple, no microsoft, etc....
Companies that do not profit go out of business.....
Earlier you said:
So, "American companies have so much cash/profits on hand", BUT "Profits generate jobs and growth".
Yet, we have over 8% unemployment and "Main Street" has seen virtually 0% growth for over a decade.
How do you reconcile those FACTS?
Growing the size of the government will not put the economy back on track....
As of today over 3 million people work for the federal government.
Dec 2008 2.7 million people worked for the federal government...
Boykin is a total moron....
Quote your source..General rule of life..never, ever, trust anything any Republican says anytime about anything, under any circumstance, without independent verification. This especially holds true when any Republican attempts to cite a historical fact or anecdote. When Republicans cite any historical tidbit, chances overwhelmingly are, they are not telling the truth. Republicanland is predominantly a land of lies and delusion. That is the truth.
www census.gov
I believe you are prevaricating a falsehood.
Put the deck of raciest cards away already!!!!!
MHP you are 1/2 white remember?????
This is not a "black vs. White" thing...
It is in fact about the "economy" and the fact it is still in the left hand ditch!!!! just spinning the tires going no place at all...
Actually, our economic downfall is completely the result of right-wing policies from Reagan onward. Also, remember that every Republican president accumulated massive debt WHILE neglecting the basic needs of the country, causing the US to continue deteriorating, falling well behind all the modern nations.
WOW, I have never heard that before, so it's the GOP's fault.
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Hurry pass the Kool-Aid to me before I sober up....
@stupidita
We actually agree on something:
Profits BY THEMSELVES DO NOT generate jobs and growth!!!!!
A factory making widgets will not add more workers or expand the size of the factory if there is no demand for the widget - whether they are making a profit or not!
As ANYONE in business knows, you only add more workers when the ones you have can't keep up with demand.
"There would be no Iphone no apple, no microsoft, etc...." if nobody wanted or could afford their products.
It is true that a factory will stay in business if they cannot make a profit.
A healthy economy requires a BALANCE between workers and management.
Business and customers need each other (workers for one company are customers for another).
Regarding your statement about number of people working for Federal Government which I assume you think shows that the size of the Federal Government is EXPLODING!!! ----
OK fact check - from bls.gov
Federal employees including USPS:
Dec 2008 = 2,777,000 (all government = 22,555,000)
Dec 2009 = 2,830,000 (all government = 22,479,000)
Dec 2010 = 2,871,000 (all government = 22,258,000)
Dec 2011 = 2,835,000 (all government = 21,987,000)
May 2012 (preliminary) = 2,819,000 (all government = 21,969,000)
So - What is your point?????
The USPS is not in the federal government numbers...
As the USPS is an independent agency.....
Next, all companies have to generate profits to stay in business.
The more companies making "widgets" puts more people to work, that means more people paying income tax, more money in the local economy..
Private industry is the main engine of the economy...
census.gov
latest data 03/2010 federal employees 3,007,938
12/2008 2,768,886.
Sorry, stupidita,
Your number includes the US Military, I believe the BLS data DOES include the 584,000 Post Office employees, but NOT the US Military numbers.
The Bureau of Labor Statistics that I pulled out included the USPS number in the totals. The totals NOT including USPS are also available.
Regarding the 3/2010 numbers (I assume you are indicating these are from the census)... keep in mind that at the time of the census, there was a big increase in # of federal workers - to run the census - so there is a blip up and then back down as this task was completed.
In other words, the 3,007,938 number doesn't mean a whole lot in terms of whether the size of the federal government is growing or shrinking.
I absolutely agree with you. Where we disagree is what causes a company to add jobs. I say the problem right now is lack of demand (this is supported by not only economists but also by what businesses - and common sense - say). Why would a company make more widgets that will just sit in the warehouse? They need orders (demand) first.
You seem to think that, if a company is making a good profit making the "widgets", they will add more jobs - and cut into their profit - to make more widgets because people have more money to buy more widgets. Something like that?
But what if nobody wants to buy more widgets? Your logic falls apart.
The reason American companies have so much cash/profits on hand is they are not re-investing that money back into the company.
Companies use the "profits" to grow the company....
Company "A" spends $10 million on new machinery, company "B" builds this machinery.
Even if company "A" is not adding workers, company "B" will have to add a few more workers in order to fulfill the $10 million order.
Yes this a very simple example, but none the less it is how things work.
@Stupidita
True
Also True
Also True
Also True, except that I would insert "might have to add" instead of "will have to add" - a minor point.
Also True
So it sounds like I am in complete agreement with you - strange as that may seem.
What is missing in your example, however, the reason why Company "A" decides to spend $10 million on new machinery.
I would argue that Company "A" will only spend $10 million on new machinery if there is a reasonable expectation that the additional product will be sold and not just sit on the warehouse shelves.
They have to justify the expenditure to the Board of Directors and to the investors. They have to be able to show that the DEMAND is there for the products - and also why the demand can not be met with current facilities and employees.
---By the way, the reason it took me so long to reply is 1) I took my mother to get a new printer [Best Buy made a sale and will now need to order another printer from HP] and 2) we went out to dinner (little Mexican restaurant sold 4 tacos).
Just a drop in the bucket, but many drops add up to DEMAND for goods and services.
Steve Jobs brought products to the market you had no idea you needed!!!!
Profits work...
Profits put people to work.
Profits pay taxes..
Furthermore you do not need share holder approval for capital expenditures...
Apple brought products to the market that they had reasonable expectation customers would want.
The genius of Steve Jobs and others like him was that he knew that the demand would be there. - even if we didn't.
Think about when the "Earnings Reports" are released - (is it every quarter?) - and the stock market and pundits on CNBC wait on pins and needles to see what they are. Then they are either happy (better than projected) so-so (same as projected) or sad (below expectation). Then the individual stock prices rise or plummet and the DOW goes up or down. The pundits and analysts go on and on over every little detail.
What do you think the pundits and stock analysts would say if a company made a huge investment in new machinery, decreasing the earnings (profit), and did not have the business justification (demand) to back it up. The experts would look at that and the stock prices would drop because idiots were running the company.
What do you think the pundits and stock analysts would say if a company made a huge investment in new machinery, decreasing the earnings (profit), and did not have the business justification (demand) to back it up. The experts would look at that and the stock prices would drop because idiots were running the company.
You have little if any knowledge how public traded companies function..
Any company that is reinvesting back into the company means the company is growing and has profits and revenues are going up..
The near-exclusive focus on race keeps us from addressing the actual Big Divide in America -- class. Since Clinton in particular, the issue of economic justice/poverty has been removed from the public/media discussion, and without that discussion, the nation will continue its decline into poverty. We can't even mention the basic issue of poverty relief! Reality: Tell me how you're going to get another job, after your job has been shipped out of the country, if you no longer have a home address, phone, clean clothes, bus fare. What makes anyone imagine that corporate powers care the least about the color of the people they are crushing out?
That said, allow me to address the silly notion that "profits generate jobs and growth." It was a useful cliche a quarter of a century ago. Since then, we've figured out that US companies cannot make profits when workers can't afford the products they make, unless they ship our jobs out. Americans are increasingly being turned into labor units used solely to enrich the few. We've seen that the lion's share of profits AND govt handouts/tax cuts to corporations have been used to cover the costs of building factories outside of the US, exporting OUR jobs, at our expense. Look back to the post-WWll era (when the US economy soared) to see what works, and then just follows the corporate dots to see what led to our economic deterioration. The higher the profits grew, the more US jobs disappeared, the greater our poverty increased.
Your panel has not yet mentioned a huge shift from previous times which has very little to do with color. Nowadays you can have a bachelor's degree or higher and STILL only be offered jobs that pay minimum wage or are part-time. That never used to happen in previous times. Education was seen as the golden ticket to prosperity. The brutality of the greed running the companies that make these hiring and wage decisions is the new thing in this era. That brutality of greed trickles down into all races. So you can say this brutality of greed is new to the white community, but communities of color, except Asians, have also traditionally held fewer college degrees. The justification for lower wages has often been lack of education in the past even if that was a lie, that was the justification. Now even with an expensive college education people of all races can't make a living wage - if they can find a job at all. Your arguments are not seeing the whole picture. That's probably because none of you haven't looked for a job for the past two years or earned a new degree in the past two years. The rules of engagement between workers and managers have changed for the worse for people of all races. When you tie it to color without seeing and mentioning the whole picture, that doesn't help anyone of any race see the issue clearly. Today, more PhD.s than ever before are on Food Stamps. What does that one fact alone say about how the rules of engagement between employers and employees have changed and how Washington is not addressing it because most of D.C. says, "Oh the market will correct itself" ? The market is correcting itself and most of the people don't like it. So how's that working for you D.C.?
Look, I'm an old white man, going on 65. I voted for Mr. Obama in 2008 because he was the best choice in my opinion, not for his race, although I was delighted when he won for that reason.
I certainly intend to vote for him again in November, even though he has proven more moderate than I'd like. He is a very intelligent and decent man, and I respect that in a time when those qualities have become quite rare in our "leaders".
I have NO interest at all in anything the GOP has to say, and I feel they will destroy our country if they gain more power than they already have. Our republican governor here in PA is already doing his best to do just that.
mark
People vote against their "own best interest", but it isn't a conscious decision.
What we once thought was conscious is is actually "cognitive unconscious" :
"people don’t vote their self-interest, they vote their identity. They vote for the people that they identify with. It is a mistake to believe that people vote only in their self-interest."
Don’t Think of an Elephant! by George Lakoff. Buy it read it pass it on!
You go Lisa, don't stop working for the people and the women rights to FREE SPEACH. We pay their WAGES and should have a say in what we do with our own bodies and our Doctors. TELL MEN NO SEX AND THERE WON"T BE ABORTIONS.
Republicans lie...all the time. Major media is complicit in the unending array of mistruths and delusional foolishness that is prevaricated on the American people every day of our lives. The major corporate media is unquestionably complicit in the lies. The corporatization of major American media is the root of the contempt Americans have for all institutions. While corporate media flaps it's collective jaws in never ending circles of foolish prevarication and absolute lies and gotcha politics and neuroses, Rome is burning, and corporate media is supplying the flames. Media, look inward and examine your corrupt soul. Major media are bought and paid for by big oil, pharma, insurance, etc., and we know it. .
Love your show and the smart opinions you elicit with your even more insightful questions. I'm trying very hard to be hopeful! Long an activist on voter rights, I'd like a longer segment on the status of the all the voter ID laws. Many thanks
Ms. Mellissa,
Bravo ! Great and much needed converstations. Thank you for your Insightfulness and Courage.
Open the Closet-Doors !
What happens if You Open that Closet-Door ?
Will the Boogie Man (or Woman) jump out of the Closet
And knock you to the floor ?
Will that Nice Man you work beside every day of the week
Turn-of-the-handle, pop out of the Closet
Oh my, my - Gay ?
Will that Nice Lady you walk-talk and jog with every weekend
Turn-of-the-handle, jump out of the Closet a run-away
Oh my, my - Immigrant ?
Closets, by Design, are Engineered Structures of Limited Space and Time,
Devoid of Light, and full of diminished and lost Opportunities
Imagine the Fears and Desolation that Grow and Fester
In the Dark
Isolation of Closets
Imagine being full of Wonderful Ideas and
Inspirations
Which never See the Light of Day
Because You must Be Quiet -
Be Invisible - Never Shine too Brightly
Or you risk Becoming a Target -
UnFair Game for the more Predatory, Ignorantly Fear-based and Violently
Destructive and InHumane Members
Of Humanity, come what may
What would happen if We Opened All of the Planetary Closet Doors ?
Yes, Open them ! Set All of the Fears, Prejudices and Bigotries aside
Greet All Human Beings locked up -
Chained up within the Closets’ suffocating and stymieing boundaries
With Arms, Minds and Hearts Open wide ?
Make Universal Love, Compassion and Tolerance
The Call Words and Action-packed Deeds of the Day
Allowed EveryOne the Fullness of Who they Are
And Who they Choose to Become ?
Why limit the World to punitive and damning judgments
Which hold Others
down
While elevating Some ?
Which Create Lifetime, taken for granted, Opportunities and Freedoms
For Others
But only Lifetime, bitterly Dis-Illusioning Imprisonment and Loss
For Some ?
Communication, Compassionate Outreach, Understanding, Moderation,
Compromise and Sacrifice for Others
Lifts, Nourishes and Sustains
All Individuals
All Peoples
All Nations
To their Highest and Deepest Potentialities, Possibilities and Goals
Yes, Open the Closet-Doors !
Let the Light DiStill, Purify, Magnify, Heal and Illuminate
Our Individual and Collective Minds, Hearts and Souls
Yes, Open the Closet-Doors !
Holding NoOne back -
Moving EveryOne Forward
Let’s Make OurSelves
Universally Whole !
The media better open it's own closet doors instead of just continuously pointing at everyone else's closet doors. Look at Chris Matthews and Schultz, for instance, for double talking prevarication. MSNBC needs to throw open the doors of it's own corporately closeted existence. Yesterday, Hayes pretty much admitted that he is simply a cog in the corporate wheel and can't be expected to challenge the mechaniusm. American "journalism" is traitorous to America. Watch how MSNBC treats President Obama for the rest of this election season and see if they turn on him like they did in 2010. Corporate journalism nourishes itself at the corporate trough and they won't turn off the corporate spigot. They're addicted to corporate corruption.
Ahhh, Melissa,
You and your "white" intellectuals still don't understand WHY the less educated and older white people still vote Republican, and it really isn't about "voting against their own economic interests" and it really ISN'T about the diversity of the "white voter".
As an older white person who grew up "redneck" and still has very strong ties to many blue collar workers, let me try to explain to you what I see.
Blue collar workers and older white people are in the "transitional generation" caught between two cultures. Older white Americans grew up in the 60's and for many blue collar workers, they see the 60's as the "perfect time", NOT because of economics but because of culture. White blue collar workers still actually still organize their lives and their neighborhoods as though they WERE still living in the 60's. They knew where they stood in that culture - they knew what was expected of them and what they could expect from it. But the culture of this country has changed - it has gotten multiracial and more concerned with "money" and blue collar workers and older white people no longer know where they fit and what they should expect - and that makes them VERY uncomfortable. The Republicans know this - just watch their ads and watch their "code words" - they have tapped into this discomfort and are using it. The Democrats don't even seem to know it exists!! Blue collar and older white Americans want their "comfort level" back!! The fact that it will NEVER come back doesn't make them any more comfortable so they look to people who they think will give them "pieces" of it back, like religion, and apple pie.
Blue collar and older white voters care about jobs, but they DON'T really care about the economy, and they aren't that concerned about "getting rich" - they just want to be "comfortable" - to have a nice home and time to do the things they want to do. They don't understand the economy since CDO's and hedge funds became daily talk, and they "block out" people who try to talk about macroeconomic issues - that is why the Republicans talk about JOBS and NOT about "careers" or how Wall Street or Greece affects the economy!
My friends and family who are blue collar workers see Romney as a person who will at least bring back some of "the good old times" (even though he can't possibly do that), even if he doesn't bring back the all the jobs they want. Blue collar workers have great optimism that even if they are unemployed, at least they know where they are, and know that in a culture they understand, that they know how to help their kids have a chance to better themselves.
You can call this discomfort "racisim" if you want, but please realize that blue collar workers and older white people don't see it this way - they aren't inherently racists - they just want to know where they stand - and right now they don't! They see Democrats as "changers" and right now, with all the stress in their lives, that is the LAST thing they want!
Until the Democrats find a way to make these groups feel comfortable about the "new society" and where they fit in it, they are always going to vote Republican because Republicans to them mean "conservatism" and going back to the "good old days"!
The GOP and Fox and Clear Channel and Republican leaders and right wing talking heads lie all the time to you folks and play on your fears and prejudices and preconceived notions to continuously fake you out every day of your lives, and you do not know the difference, and never, ever will. Plus, a lot of older white folks are inherently racially oriented, without question. That is the truth.
reveal
Thank you for your "insightful" comments, but unfortunately, attitudes like yours won't help!
The Democrats have to find a way to reach out to these people and show them that they ARE included in this new society - that they CAN understand and be "comfortable" with all the changes that are occurring!
I remember an old ad from some campaign in the past. It showed a blue collar worker stating what he wanted (a home, a future for his kids) and a hispanic worker stating what he wanted (a home, a future for his kids) and a black worker stating what he wanted (a home, a future for his kids) and then they all got together and linked arms and stated together: "We are all in this together, that's why we vote Democrat".
WHY isn't the Democratic Party running ads like that all over the country today?
dupe
When Senator DeMint was talking to CEO Dimon and drew the parallel to money lost, perhaps he was also remembering the palette loads of cash that disappeared upon delivery in Iraq under another administration.
"The economy, stupid" which James Carville had coined as a campaign strategist of Bill Clinton's successful 1992 presidential campaign against sitting president George H. W. Bush.
oncearepublican has it almost spot on- his friends and family identify with the republican rhetoric or frame of the world as they see it.
Until we can grab them the way repubes manipulate them, we will not convince them to see things our way.
Facts don't matter. Truth doesn't matter. Identity is all that matters.
Loved the show today, keep up the great work! The one things that I wanted to clarify is that stonewall, which was mentioned briefly, was mostly an uprising of transgender women of color. This fact has been erased systematically by a certain kind of revisionist history that seeks to lump all of queer political history into the category "gay" and thus erases bisexual, transgender and intersex folks, just to name a few. I am certain that you didn't mean to erase any history or anything, especially since you've been such a great allie for trans folks on the show, but I wanted to put my two cents in. If you are interested to know where I came up with those factoids, a fantastic run-down of the trans liberation movement and its overlap/fracturing off from the gay rights movement was written by Susan Stryker simply called "transgender history" that you and/or your staff may find informative (if you haven't already read it).
Thanks for all that you do,
~Rowan